The following is a response to an anonymous comment on the Christian Academics Speaking About God video from yesterday. I normally wouldn’t create an entire post about a comment, but a) my response was too long to fit into the comment box, b) atheists get this kind of reaction all of the time and I completely reject the logic of the arguments, and c) they (unjustly) accused this website of censorship via Twitter. We have never censored any comment here. That would be against our principles. As our mantra on the top of the right sidebar says, this blog is An Attempt At Advancing Logical, Rational, Secular Discourse. This really only works if there is a conversation, and the conversation is not always pretty. Anonymous’ comments are in italics. Here goes.
“To be a Christian who also believes very much in science and admits there is much that I don't believe in or know, I'm so sick of atheists trying to ram their fucking ideas down my throat. They are worse than "born-again" Christians and evangelicals.”
How are we ramming our beliefs down your throat? The outspoken rejection of your religion and unsubstantiated beliefs is ramming our beliefs down your throat? Funny logic…
Is anyone demanding that American churches cease and desist the teaching of Biblical “history” and that science be taught at churches instead? Are there atheist politicians, media, scientific leaders, and citizens saying that America is an Atheistic Nation and should adhere to those principals? Are atheists suggesting Constitutional amendments to dictate their belief systems? No. No there are not. You propose a false comparison between outspoken atheists and “born-again” Christians. Outspoken atheists speak up against irrational belief systems because those belief systems affect us all. It is not enough to sit back and hope the crazy people don’t gain more power. Take Bachmann and Perry for example. They are Dominionists that would infringe on both of our rights if given the opportunity. Sometimes the irrational belief systems of religions has horrible consequences.The list could go on.
If you watched the video you would see the complete nonsense of Christian Theology. They clearly are rationalizing, making up wishy-washy arguments and bending logic to the point where the word no longer has meaning. And these are some of the best thinkers of the religion! The video is meant to convey that they don’t know what they are talking about and YET the religion claims universal and ultimate truth!
Also, regarding the false comparison between outspoken atheists and “born again” Christians. I think you and all believers are wrong. I just said that out loud and we have this site to make our case. Maybe there is a lawsuit here and there, but it doesn’t go beyond that. “Born again” Christians say that atheists and anyone else that isn’t them are wrong, are bad people and are going to Hell. We are demonized throughout religion, politics and society. There are death threats against us all the time. There is no comparison. Stop doing it.
“Why should anyone be an apologist? Why would I apologize for my beliefs? I'm not trying to ram them down your throats.”
See the comment after yours. Apologist does not equal “apology. It is a description of those that make defensive religious arguments and is not necessarily a derogatory term.
“I don't give two shits what you are or what you believe. I only care in the context of THIS life on THIS planet, what is the depth of your humanity?”
I agree. We only have the context of this live on this planet. Why introduce an unsupported proposition with no evidence that something exists beyond this life and make the assumption that it is Truth with a capital “T?” More importantly, why do you ask the question “…what is the depth of my humanity?” Are you insinuating that since I am an atheist I cannot have “humanity?” That I am not moral? Who sounds like the “born again” Christian now? You probably don’t even realize how much your religion guides your view of others that are not like you. You are making a value judgment on me and atheists that we are “bad,” sinners,” or “not to be trusted” without knowing me and strictly based on my rejection of your religion. Your religious thinking has instilled that in you. I ask that you look in the mirror and think about that. It is not nice. I make no assumptions that believers are stupid or bad. Misguided? From my point of view...yes. There is a big difference between thinking someone is misguided and thinking someone lacks humanity.
“Man has the double conceit of being able to believe we will find all the answers with our science, or that we have already found them with our religions.”
No one, but those that defend religion with a false comparison to science, make the claim that science can know everything. No scientist has ever said that. None. It is impossible to “find all the answers.” I completely reject that criticism since I am aware of no one making that claim. Science is the “best” way to find answers to the questions we can ask. We may not find the answer, but it is the best method to look. Religion has never, to date, provided a single concrete answer about anything. Hence, the convoluted theology that was exhibited in the video.
“Contemplate the complexity of infinite Universes and time, and you'll realize how dumb you are on either side to argue points that you couldn't possibly fully understand.”
I repeat the same point as above with the added comment that I make no claims that I can understand everything or even a small fraction of the universe. Religions do make the claim that they have the answers to life, the universe and everything with the added demand that no one criticize or ask questions of religion. How do I know that they make these claims? Well, for one thing whenever someone like me rejects religious thinking we end up having conversations like this one. You are telling me to not challenge the religious paradigm. For example….
“So atheists, you have your opinions, and religionists, you and I have ours. Have the tolerance and innate security to just be happy with what you have, and shut the fuck up about anybody else.”
See? We are to “…shut the fuck up…” I should not dare challenge religious authority or question religious thinking, belief, faith, or the existence of a deity! Would you say this to a person of another religion? This is a demand by those in the majority that do not wish the minority speak up. You are speaking from a place of privilege and demanding that the minority be quiet. You are, in essence, telling us to be silent and know our place.
No. I will not.