Wednesday, August 22, 2012

Random Quotes of Insufferable Divisive Rhetoric: Richard Carrier


Richard Carrier exposes the divisiveness of some of the Atheism+ proponents. I ask anyone how this is constructive or defensible. This is a typical “You’re either with us or against us” false dichotomy and Carrier should know better.   

“There is a new atheism brewing, and it’s the rift we need, to cut free the dead weight so we can kick the C.H.U.D.’s back into the sewers and finally disown them, once and for all. 

“…I call everyone now to pick sides (not in comments here, but publicly, via Facebook or other social media): are you with us, or with them; are you now a part of the Atheism+ movement, or are you going to stick with Atheism Less?Then at least we’ll know who to work with. And who to avoid.”



update: Now complete with "enemy" rhetoric
http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/2207/comment-page-1/#comment-20317
http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/2207/comment-page-1/#comment-20357

9 comments:

Fester said...

Carrier appears to be just another non-freethinking poseur. Or a judgmental ass. Or both.

Fester said...

What I mean to imply is that while Carrier - or anyone else for that matter - can be as passionate as they choose to be, passion isn't license to attack noncombatants. I'll verbally attack any bishop or archbishop or cardinal (Dolan, Egan, Law) or Poop Benedict - but I won't attack any other atheist even though I may disagree with them. I do reserve the right to call them names. :)

Steve Barry said...

The original title of this post was more...colorful. :)

Andy said...

Mr Carrier seems to think demonizing is OK "Demonizing the vile is fully right and correct (in fact, socially necessary: it’s how we defeated the Nazis, the KKK, and southern slavery) when you are honest and reasonable."
-from the same thread

You know, demonizing the other side is not really practicing good skeptical behavior. Geez, am I arguing against the "Ya gotta break some eggs to make an omelette" method of social activism. Such methods have lead to purges and the guillotine.

krissthesexyatheist said...

I'm not sure what to make of this. I'm not sure what Carrier is saying. fo sho I love his work so much, but...Look atheist/skeptic,nerds...I understand that instead of playing team or individual sports growing up, you/we were too busy studying, working in the AV-room or practicing with the debate team. I understand that. How can i say this...this is not team spirit, this is divisive. I always say Team Atheist becuase i believe that if we unite, then the culture war will be that much more awesome...for us. divide and conquer is what we should be doing to them. Perhaps a leard needs to emerge that can unify this thing, this thing I call...Team Atheist.

Kriss

Nick Sabot said...

It's not just Carrier, ether. The Grand Poobah of A+ herself has said similar things.

"I know I’d love for people to start wearing A+ pins and Surlyramics so I know who I want to chat with."

http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/2012/08/atheism/

Proxer said...

The idea that anyone who chooses not to take up the banner of Atheism+ is automatically a bigot/douchebag is ridiculous. Mr. Carrier owes the world (and Tom) an apology.

I'm going to start Atheism++; it's Atheism+ that's not antagonistic toward people who don't want to be a part of Atheism+.

Jack Carlson said...

While I agree with the core values Carrier espouses, something in his tone and attitude disturbs me. He praises compassion then refuses to exhibit any toward those who don't completely agree with his rhetoric. Rather than taking the easy way out (dismissal and denunciation), why isn't he willing to make an effort to convert those on the fence to the goals he claims to promote? Convincing others of the value of your opinions often requires patience and a willingness to point out the weaknesses in their position. Being so dismissive tells me the goal of "Atheism+" is more to form a clique of self-congratulatory egotists than to actually champion the value and benefits of atheism.

Jim Hodges said...

I made a comment and was told I need to "get out more". What I was responding to was the whole "movement" idea. I currently don't see a movement. What I see is a lot of people talking/arguing/disrespecting one another over what appears to be minor disagreements and not making the case for Atheism. Okay, or humanism. But they are separate and I agree that not all Atheists are humanists in the FtB strictly defined terminology.